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Discussion: Бодричи (МАКЕДОНЯНЕ)4 век до Р.Х. – 12 век от Р.Х.
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moskva |
Бодричи (МАКЕДОНЯНЕ)4 век до Р.Х. – 12 век от Р.Х.
Sep 16 2008, 1:22 PM EDT
До переселения на южное побережье Прибалтики Бодричи назывались Македоняне (Македонцы) и их племя составляло костяк Македонского царства Александра Великого. Переселилась Македоняне в район Кимврского полуострова в 320 г до Р.Х. РУССКОЕ БРАТСВО 3 out of 7 found this valuable. Do you?
Keyword tags:
MACEDONIA IS GREECE
southslav migration 6-7th AD
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moskva |
1. RE: Бодричи (МАКЕДОНЯНЕ)4 век до Р.Х. – 12 век от Р.Х.
Sep 16 2008, 1:25 PM EDT
сразу после распада Македонского царства, унаследовав от Александра воинское искусство, его герб и неосязаемую, но уже в то время сформулированную и проверенную на практике Русскую Идею. Вот что пишет о них выдающийся исследователь славянской древности Егор Классен: "По падению Македонского царства часть македонцев, около 320 года до Р.Х., переселилась к Балтийскому морю и основала свои новые жилища под названием Бодричей, сохранивших до самого падения своего герб Александра Македонского, изображавший буцефала и грифа. А вскоре после того одна часть их снова переселилась на Ильмень и Ловать. Следует подчеркнуть, что войны Александра Македонского были первым военным столкновением двух Идей "Русской" и "Иудейской". "Иудейскую идею" национальной исключительности исповедовали в те годы (340-332 гг. до Р.Х.) практически все народы мира, противостоявшие македонским фалангам. "Русскую идею" несло миру небольшое по численности племя македонян. Результат известен. Все встретившиеся на пути Александра огромные армии (в том числе непобедимые дотоле парфяне, персы, египтяне и индусы) потерпели сокрушительные поражения не столько военные, сколько идеологические. Впервые русская Идея явила миру свою универсальность и непобедимость. Не зря, видимо, Великого Александра воспитывал Великий Аристотель, которого смело можно назвать "крестным отцом" Русской Идеи 3 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you? |
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ivanMKD |
2. RE: Бодричи (МАКЕДОНЯНЕ)4 век до Р.Х. – 12 век от Р.Х.
Sep 16 2008, 6:42 PM EDT
can this be translated in english so we can understand. i hope Da:)
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aleksandarmacedonian |
3. RE: Бодричи (МАКЕДОНЯНЕ)4 век до Р.Х. – 12 век от Р.Х.
Sep 16 2008, 11:44 PM EDT
1.In Greece today people start from an a priori assumption of the "Greek identity of Macedonia as an obvious historical fact". Identifying the Greeks from the ethnic and linguistic point of view with the ancient Macedonians, the current Greek regime accuses "Skopje" of encroaching upon the name Macedonia and on a part of a cultural heritage which belongs only to the Greeks. In fact this is nothing more than their conviction which for years now has been handed out to young people in Greek schools from their earliest years and, most recently, has been propagated throughout the entire world. The thesis of the "Greek identity of Macedonia" is not scientifically supportable. We shall concentrate here on the earliest period. Continued 4 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you? |
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aleksandarmacedonian |
4. RE: Бодричи (МАКЕДОНЯНЕ)4 век до Р.Х. – 12 век от Р.Х.
Sep 16 2008, 11:45 PM EDT
2.In Greek scholarship, in numerous articles and books, the historical facts which go against the thesis of a "Greek Macedonia" are passed over. It is universally known that the classical Greek authors did not recognize the Macedonians as their fellow-countrymen, calling them barbarians, and they considered Macedonian domination in Greece as an alien rule, imported from outside by the members of other tribes, the, as Plutarch says, allophyloi. This historical right and this "Greek identity of Macedonia" have for a long time been "proved" with the hypothesis that the ancient Macedonians were a Doric tribe and their language a Doric dialect. Since this could not be supported by definite facts from historical sources, and even less by archaeological or linguistic proofs, not long ago official Greek scholarship discarded this hypothesis. After the deciphering of Linear B in 1952, and more particularly after 1970. when the luxurious edition of The History of the Greek Ethnos' was published, Greek linguists and historians went far into the past to seek for foundations for their thesis of a "Greek Macedonia". Continued 5 out of 6 found this valuable. Do you? |
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aleksandarmacedonian |
5. RE: Бодричи (МАКЕДОНЯНЕ)4 век до Р.Х. – 12 век от Р.Х.
Sep 16 2008, 11:47 PM EDT
3.Although none of the Mycenaean scholars in the world takes seriously their hypothetical interpretations of Mycenaean texts, they nevertheless wish to discover in them "proofs" that the ancient Macedonians were Indo-Europeans, Proto-Hellenes, and that their language was the oldest, purest and most conservative Greek dialect which at the same time cast a new light on the oldest history of the Greek ethnos. This thesis reached its culmination at the beginning of the 1980's when an unusual jubilee under the title of "4,000 Years of Greek Macedonia" was celebrated with great pomp. The theory thus constructed has pretensions to scholarship but in fact starts out from pre-suppositions which are not supported by a single historical fact. The history of the ancient Macedonians over a lengthy period of 1,600 years (2,200-600 B.C.) has been reconstructed on the basis of a prejudgement that they could have been nothing other than Greeks. It should be noted that no text whatsoever has been preserved in the ancient Macedonian language. Only about a hundred glosses are known, from which it is not possible to reconstruct the language. For more than 150 years these words have been a subject of comparative linguistic studies, but quite a large number of these remain with only a hypothetical explanation or even with no explanation at all Continued 5 out of 6 found this valuable. Do you? |
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aleksandarmacedonian |
6. RE: Бодричи (МАКЕДОНЯНЕ)4 век до Р.Х. – 12 век от Р.Х.
Sep 16 2008, 11:48 PM EDT
4.While earlier on Doric forms were being sought in the Macedonian glosses, Greek linguists are now investing great efforts in revealing archaic Aeolian. Arcado-Cypriot and Mycenaean parallels. In fact the sparse linguistic material is extremely complex and heterogeneous. It is clear that among the glosses there are borrowings from Greek which in antique times was a language of great prestige; the Greek words, however, have been adapted according to a different, non-Greek phonetic system, [e.g.: Macedonian ade "sky", Greek aither "air"; Mac. danos, Gk. thanatos "death"; Mac. keb(a)]le Gk. kephale "head", etc.] But at the same time there are among the glosses such words as are not found in Greek but have parallels in other Indo-European languages, [e.g.: aliza "a white layer under the bark of a tree", Slavonic e/oa xa; Mac. goda "innards", Gk. entera, Old Indian Sanskrit gudam "intestine"; Mac. pella "stone", Germ. Fels < + pel-sa, etc.] As proof of the cognation of the ancient Macedonians with the Greeks a photograph has been presented of the inscription from Vergina with Greek names. It should be mentioned that the majority of the names of Macedonians from the ancient period are those of members of the ruling dynasty or the aristocracy who consciously identified with the sphere of Hellenic culture so that it is in no way strange that the names of the majority of them are Greek. But alongside them are to be found Macedonian names which cannot be explained by means of Greek etymology. Continued 5 out of 6 found this valuable. Do you? |
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aleksandarmacedonian |
7. RE: Бодричи (МАКЕДОНЯНЕ)4 век до Р.Х. – 12 век от Р.Х.
Sep 16 2008, 11:49 PM EDT
5.With regard to their religion which, it is maintained, was the same as that of the Greeks, it should be borne in mind that the names of the divinities were translated into Greek in accordance with their functions, just as the names of the Greek divinities were altered by Roman authors writing in Latin: Jupiter in place of Zeus, Minerva for Athena, Venus for Aphrodite, etc. From an analysis of the ancient Macedonian glosses it can be concluded that ancient Macedonian was an Indo-European language distinct from Greek. The well-known French Indo-European scholar A. Meje says that Greek is no closer to ancient Macedonian than is any other Indo-European language. In his classification of the Indo-European languages, J. Pokorny with complete justification puts Macedonian together with Phrygian in his Indo-European etymological dictionary. In support of the thesis that the ancient Macedonians were Greeks it is stressed that Philip II and Alexander the Great not only behaved as Greeks but were incarnations of the idea of a united Greek state. The state which was ruled by Philip II and Alexander the Great, who subdued the Greek city-states and extended their frontiers to Central Asia, is nowhere called a Greek state. Educated by the great Greek philosopher Aristotle, Alexander highly valued classical Greek education and spread it to Central Asia. He abandoned, moreover, the dogma of the "difference" between Greeks and barbarians. He introduced into his policy a new spirit of the equality of all peoples, a spirit alien even to his teacher, who had prepared him for leadership of the Greeks and mastery of the barbarians Continued 4 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you? |
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aleksandarmacedonian |
8. RE: Бодричи (МАКЕДОНЯНЕ)4 век до Р.Х. – 12 век от Р.Х.
Sep 16 2008, 11:51 PM EDT
6.In accordance with his cosmopolitan ideology, Alexander showed an extraordinary broadmindedness both towards the Greeks and towards the other Balkan and Asiatic peoples. With this approach he laid the foundations of Hellenism too, which was a mixture of Greek philosophic and educational ideas with the cultural and religious understandings of the peoples of the east. Alexander spread Hellenism in the Greek language, which he considered to be the language of culture, but his mother tongue was not understood by the Greeks: a fact of which there are explicit proofs.") Greek scholarship passes over with an underestimation the historic fact of the migration of peoples which fundamentally redrew the ethnic map of Europe, and especially of the Balkans, during the early Byzantine period. Macedonia has been represented as a buffer protecting Hellenism from the waves of the barbarians throughout the centuries. The Slavonic element in Greece is either denied or minimalized and it is well known that the Byzantine historian Constantine Porphyrogenitus openly says that the whole of Hellas had been Slavicized - It is likewise a known fact that the Slavonic tribes of the Ezerites and the Milingi were independent in the Peloponnese in the 7th and 8th centuries and did not pay tribute to Byzantium. If such facts are borne in mind, it is not difficult to understand whether Macedonia at that period was really a "bastion of Hellenism". Continued 4 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you? |
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aleksandarmacedonian |
9. RE: Бодричи (МАКЕДОНЯНЕ)4 век до Р.Х. – 12 век от Р.Х.
Sep 16 2008, 11:52 PM EDT
7.There have been protests in Greece that we have not used toponyms from the Aegean part of Macedonia in the forms which were given to them by decree after 1913 and more especially in 1926 because this has called Greek sovereignty into question. Demelios Georgakas" notes that even today in the Peloponnese no matter in which direction one moves one cannot go three miles without encountering a Slavonic place-name. Similar statements have been made by Ph. Malingudis. If there are so many Slavonic place-names in the Peloponnese, how many more are there in the Aegean part of Macedonia where the Slavonic tribes dwelt? And today Slavs have been living there for a period of 1,400 years. What is more natural than that the Balkanized Slavs who have lived so long and continuously in Macedonia should be called Macedonians and their language Macedonian. During the period of Thucydides (11, 99) the population of Northern (Upper) Macedonia was distinguished from the Macedonian conquerors; but even those from Upper Macedonia were likewise called Macedonians. It is very unscholarly to speak of a homogenization of just one nation in these regions of the Balkans. 4 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you? |
MHRM |
10. RE: Бодричи (МАКЕДОНЯНЕ)4 век до Р.Х. – 12 век от Р.Х.
Sep 17 2008, 2:15 AM EDT
"7.VERY GOOD!!! THE TRUCE OUT! The truce allways wins! 4 out of 6 found this valuable. Do you? |
macedonONE |
11. RE: Бодричи (МАКЕДОНЯНЕ)4 век до Р.Х. – 12 век от Р.Х.
Sep 17 2008, 8:39 AM EDT
We should not discus any more with the country who has APARTHEID is the 21 century. There is no state in the world with 98% of population with one nationality, one religion, only one language allowed for speaking, except Greece. That kind of state was Nazi Germany from 1933 till 1945. We all know what happened with that state. The God is above us for all of us in the world. Those who throw stones on the God, they are falling down on their heads
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ivanMKD |
12. RE: Бодричи (МАКЕДОНЯНЕ)4 век до Р.Х. – 12 век от Р.Х.
Sep 17 2008, 6:19 PM EDT
i was just interested in the fact especially the linguistic part.thank you :)
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paulosmelas |
13. RE: Бодричи (МАКЕДОНЯНЕ)4 век до Р.Х. – 12 век от Р.Х.
Oct 12 2008, 1:38 PM EDT
SOUTH SLAV MIGRATION 6-7TH AD THAT ALONE IS ENOUGH BULGAROIDS
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macedonONE |
14. RE: Бодричи (МАКЕДОНЯНЕ)4 век до Р.Х. – 12 век от Р.Х.
Oct 19 2008, 10:06 PM EDT
The end of the Ottoman Athenian's propaganda and emptiness of their souls addicted with lies. The end of the blindness of the all Academic world.The professor Eugen Borza from Penn State University and D. Brendan Nagle from University of Southern California, shell teach them all lessons of the ancient Macedonia. Here are some sources: 1. http://www.makedonika.org/borza.htm 2. http://mk.wikibooks.org/wiki/Who_Were_(and_Are)_the_Macedonians%3F (same text as 1.) 3. http://mk.wikibooks.org/wiki/Macedonian_Appropriation_of_Greek_Kulturgeschichte http://www.apaclassics.org/AnnualMeeting/96program.html http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A1IU7B0Q4KJP7L/ref=cm_pdp_rev_more?ie=UTF8&sort_by=MostRecentReview#R3NC5T52BGPGPY Thanks to The God that he give us Archeology and honest Archeologists. 3 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
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MHRM |
15. RE: Бодричи (МАКЕДОНЯНЕ)4 век до Р.Х. – 12 век от Р.Х.
Oct 21 2008, 2:51 AM EDT
March 1, 1913Memorandum on the Independence of Macedonia submitted by the Macedonian colony in St. Petersburg to the Conference of the representatives of the Great Powers in London. ...it is more suitable for all the neighbors of Macedonia that this country remain undivided, since by any division, sections of our living compatriots will remain under foreign authority and will perish. The Macedonians have won their right to self-determination over their whole recent history, as well...The Serbs and the Bulgarians deliberately say nothing about these huge Macedonian victories and permit nobody to write about them...As a result of all this, the Macedonian Colony in St.Petersburg, fulfilling its sacred duty towards its fatherland and conscientiously applying the slogan "Macedonia to the Macedonians", protests and cannot remain indifferent when the allied Balkan states (Bulgaria, Serbia and Greece) - our brothers in blood and faith - aim to dismember our fatherland....Here is what is needed for the Macedonian people; 1. Macedonia should remain a single, indivisible and independent Balkan state with it geographic, ethnographic, historical, economic and political borders. 2. A Macedonian national assembly should be established on the basis of general elections in Salonika in the soonest possible time, which would work out in detail the internal structure of the state and determine its relations with the neighboring states. Makedonskii Golos, St. Petersburg 1913-1914 3 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
MACEDONIANking |
16. RE: Бодричи (МАКЕДОНЯНЕ)4 век до Р.Х. – 12 век от Р.Х.
Oct 21 2008, 3:03 AM EDT
The Greek identity of the Ancient Macedonians and their name is attested, among other sources, by:a. the Hebrew sources (the Bible, the book of Maccabees, the Talmud as well as the Jewish writers Josephus, Philo Judaeus and others (doc. 6, p. 44-45). b. the New Testament: o Paul the Apostle, was summoned to Macedonia by a Macedonian in the form of a vision speaking to him in Greek (Act Apost. XVI 9,10) o The Apostles Paul and Silas met Greek men and women in Thessaloniki and Beroea (Act Apost. XVII 4, 12). 1 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
Daci92sk |
17. RE: Бодричи (МАКЕДОНЯНЕ)4 век до Р.Х. – 12 век от Р.Х.
Oct 25 2008, 7:28 PM EDT
"SOUTH SLAV MIGRATION 6-7TH AD THAT ALONE IS ENOUGH BULGAROIDS "Bulgarians r from asia not from Europe and they r not Macedonians the r Bulgars who accepted Slavic language and history how many times we need to tell u even and Bulgarians r admiting that they r Asians not Europeans or Macedonians 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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paulosmelas |
18. RE: Бодричи (МАКЕДОНЯНЕ)4 век до Р.Х. – 12 век от Р.Х.
Oct 26 2008, 3:51 AM EDT
The creation of the“Macedonian”nation,for almost half of a century,was done in a condition of single-party dictatorship.In those times,there was no difference between science and ideology,so the fyromian historiography,unopposed by anybody when falsification from the type of substitution of the word “Bulgarian” with the word“Macedonian”were made.Denko Maleski,Minister interview to FYROMian newspaper Utrinski Vesnik,October16,2006
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paulosmelas |
19. RE: Бодричи (МАКЕДОНЯНЕ)4 век до Р.Х. – 12 век от Р.Х.
Oct 26 2008, 4:08 AM EDT
Who are these people that try to hijack ancient Greek and medieval- modern Bulgarian history. britannica encyclopedia The largest group, calling themselves Macedonians (about two-thirds of the population), are descendants of Slavic tribes that moved into the region between the 6th and 8th centuries AD. Their language is very closely related to Bulgarian and is written in the Cyrillic script. The Macedonians[18] ( Македонци, Makedonci) – also referred to as Macedonian Slavs[19] – are a South Slavic ethnic group who are primarily associated with the Republic of Macedonia. They speak the Macedonian(BULGARI) language, a South Slavic language. About three quarters of all these people live in the former yugoslavic republic of Macedonia In 1845 the Russian scholar Viktor Grigorovič travelled in the Balkans in order to study the south Slavic dialects of Macedonia. His work announced to the world for the first time the existence of two separate Bulgarian dialects: Eastern and Western. According to his findings, the Western BULGARIAN variety, spoken in Macedonia, was characterized by traces of Old Slavic nasal vowels [15]. The first official Macedonian grammar was developed by Krume Kepeski. One of the most important contributors in the standardisation of the Macedonian literary language was Blaže Koneski. The first document written in the literary standard Macedonian language is the first issue of the Nova Makedonia newspaper in 1944. We are not related to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are a Slav people and our language is closely related to Bulgarian." "There is some confusion about the identity of the people of this country." [FYROM's Ambassador to Canada, Gyordan Veselinov in an interview with the Ottawa Citizen, 24 February 1999 1 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you? |
