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Vigilant52 |
Birth certificate?
Oct 25 2008, 5:53 PM EDT
You say on here that it's a myth that Obama can't provide his birth certificate. Your evidence to refute that is a copy of a certification of live birth. I don't think that his full name includes Muhammed or stuff like that, but it's pretty clear that a certification of live birth is not the same as a birth certificate. If you guys want to be honest and factual on here, tell us that the image you are showing is not a birth certificate. Rationalize how a certification of live birth somehow equates to being a birth certificate, or better yet, tell us that it isn't a birth certificate and it's the best that the Obama campaign has provided to us.It is certainly a valid question to be absolutely sure that Obama can run for president. There are questions and concerns about it. That doesn't make it a smear. If Obama's birth certificate could clear up this situation and he hasn't provide it, then the accusations against him have not been debunked. If you can't debunk a claim, then how can you call the accusations against him a myth? 10 out of 24 found this valuable. Do you?
Keyword tags:
barack obama myths
birth certificate
president
rumors
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Rembrandt |
1. RE: Birth certificate?
Oct 27 2008, 1:23 PM EDT
Well, actually it is. Different states use different headers at the top, but "Certificate of Live Birth" is indeed the same as a birth certificate. My sons' birth certificates say the same thing (they were born in New Mexico) and my parents say the same thing (born in Oklahoma). You're working really hard on this one, aren't you? 1 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Vigilant52 |
2. RE: Birth certificate?
Oct 29 2008, 2:48 PM EDT
My birth certificate shows a lot more than the bare bones info shown on that certification of live birth. That certification of live birth is like a Cliff Notes version of the info on his birth certificate. Sorry, it's not the same. And Rembrandt, the way things are done in New Mexico and Oklahoma isn't the way they do it on other states. Do you know that a certification of live birth and a birth certificate are the same thing in Hawaii? Referring to the way it's done in two other states isn't convincing.Frankly, I'd rather see the actual birth certificate of Obama rather than a reprinted copy of a certification of live birth that was made last year. The certification of live birth here says that Obama's father's race is African. Wouldn't a birth certificate from that time say something like Negro or Black, instead of African? If it originally said something else and they changed it, how can we trust this reprinted copy? These are questions I'm hearing from people around me. Please give me some answers to these questions. 3 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Rembrandt |
3. RE: Birth certificate?
Oct 29 2008, 4:04 PM EDT
Well, no, because he was actually from Africa, for one. The lawsuit disputing this was thrown out. It's been debunked -- at least until Limbaugh brought it up again a few days ago with no substantiation or proof, just "I don't know." If there were something here -- really -- it wouldn't be an Internet Talking Point Conspiracy. There's been time enough and effort enough and -- in addition -- it's pretty damn easy to research if you're willing to spend a bit of money and do the legwork. It would have been a scandal 8 months ago and he'd have been disqualified from even getting the nomination. This would have been low hanging fruit for the RNC if there had been any truth to it whatsoever. What do you imagine would have kept them from following up on it, really? From FactCheck.com: “When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children. Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.” http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate Vote for Obama (or not) because of how you feel about the issues. Read his and McCain's policies, figure out how they affect you, and make your choice. Don't waste your time on stuff like this. You can do better. 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Vigilant52 |
4. RE: Birth certificate?
Oct 31 2008, 8:46 PM EDT
The lawsuit was thrown out. Did you read why the judge threw it out, what his reasoning was? Just because the judge threw the case out doesn't mean it was debunked. The judge said that American citizens, you and I, have no standing to require Obama to present his birth certificate. People from the Democratic party, for instance, would have to bring this up, because according to the judge, you and I somehow don't have that power. That is why the court order is being appealed. You do some research yourself on just what the judge said in that trial, and ask yourself if his reasoning makes sense, or if it's even Constitutional. Normal American citizens have no right to require that someone truly prove where they're from? That's not American. And do you honestly think that either the Democratic party or Republican party would disqualify their candidate if they knew he had a good chance at becoming president? Let's be real here.Just because a crazy person like Limbaugh talks about this doesn't instantly make it a crazy idea and full of crap. Saying that Limbaugh brought it up doesn't debunk it. I don't get what Kenya being a British colony has to do with anything. They're not American places. Please explain that to me. This isn't about the policies of either candidate, this is about whether Obama can rightfully run for president. If the most qualified person in the world is not a natural born citizen (which is a strict requirement) then they can not run for president. Period. Obama has produced a piece of paper that is not his original certificate, says African instead of Black or Negro as his father's race (which I'm pretty sure is how they would have listed him back then), and after he went to Hawaii to see his mother, he had his birth records sealed. At least McCain provided his records when he was asked. Please address my points. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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tllawren22 |
5. RE: Birth certificate?
Nov 2 2008, 1:02 PM EST
leave it at this..he is american enough to be in the senate and he's american enough to be a presidential canadiate...so that means he is american enough to be the president and if he was not eligible to be then they would have stopped it a long time ago...get over it cause the next president is OBAMA for your MAMA :)
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Rembrandt |
6. RE: Birth certificate?
Nov 3 2008, 1:05 PM EST
"The lawsuit was thrown out. Did you read why the judge threw it out, what his reasoning was? Just because the judge threw the case out doesn't mean it was debunked. The judge said that American citizens, you and I, have no standing to require Obama to present his birth certificate. People from the Democratic party, for instance, would have to bring this up, because according to the judge, you and I somehow don't have that power. That is why the court order is being appealed. You do some research yourself on just what the judge said in that trial, and ask yourself if his reasoning makes sense, or if it's even Constitutional. Normal American citizens have no right to require that someone truly prove where they're from? That's not American. And do you honestly think that either the Democratic party or Republican party would disqualify their candidate if they knew he had a good chance at becoming president? Let's be real here.If he didn't have US citizenship, he'd have to have citizenship somewhere else, right? The only other option is Kenya, due to his father. He had dual American/British citizenship thanks to his birth. When Kenya broke away from the United Kingdom, dual citizenship was no longer possible. Since he didn't claim Kenyan citizenship, he is solely a U.S. citizen and has been since 1982. If he hadn't been a U.S. Citizen to start with, then he wouldn't have any citizenship now -- hence, it's a non-issue. And the Democrats might not have chased it down, but the RNC certainly would have. They've had two years to track it down and argue it and plenty of resources to do it with. Seriously. There are so much more worthy things for you to spend your time on than this. Do you find this valuable? |
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Vigilant52 |
7. RE: Birth certificate?
Nov 3 2008, 5:58 PM EST
Obama went to school in Indonesia, under a different name, and the laws required that he be a citizen of Indonesia in order to go to school there. Can you explain that one?
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Rembrandt |
8. RE: Birth certificate?
Nov 3 2008, 6:31 PM EST
"Obama went to school in Indonesia, under a different name, and the laws required that he be a citizen of Indonesia in order to go to school there. Can you explain that one?"Do I have to? Really? No, I don't think I do. http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp Obama's mother remarried when he was still a toddler. His stepfather was from Indonesia. That would be sufficient to let him live in Indonesia and go to private school. Seriously, man. Let it go. Go vote tomorrow. Make your voice heard that way. It's way more worth your time. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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marcam99 |
9. RE: Birth certificate?
Nov 3 2008, 6:36 PM EST
Obama has no right to call himself a U.S. citizen. He went to Muslim schools, affiliates with foreign policy extremists (or terrorists), supports infanticide, apparently doesn't read bills that he votes on, has dangerous economic policies (according to Nobel prize winning economist Robert Mundell), and can sell water to the drowning.His moral views are horrifying and his economic views are impending disaster. 0 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
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twins1729 |
10. RE: Birth certificate?
Nov 3 2008, 11:33 PM EST
Obama was born in the US. And even if he wasn't, McCain was born in Panama. Is that an issue?
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Vigilant52 |
11. RE: Birth certificate?
Nov 4 2008, 5:06 PM EST
McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone and when he was asked to provide documentation he provided documentation. Not a digital copy of something that's like a birth certificate but isn't a birth certificate. Everyone knows where McCain was born, there's no dispute over that. Rembrandt, can you prove that because Obama's stepfather was from Indonesia that that would be sufficient for him to go to school in Indonesia? I've seen it said from multiple sources that when Obama went to school in Indonesia, the only way that could have been done was if he was a citizen of Indonesia (which would mean he gave up his citizenship of wherever he was born). Rembrandt, can you provide proof for your claim that his stepfather's heritage was good enough for Obama to go to school back then?I don't like McCain, but he provided documentation when he was asked. Obama provided some pixels. I can't be confident in that. Do you find this valuable? |
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Rembrandt |
12. RE: Birth certificate?
Nov 5 2008, 2:24 AM EST
"McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone and when he was asked to provide documentation he provided documentation. Not a digital copy of something that's like a birth certificate but isn't a birth certificate. Everyone knows where McCain was born, there's no dispute over that. Rembrandt, can you prove that because Obama's stepfather was from Indonesia that that would be sufficient for him to go to school in Indonesia? I've seen it said from multiple sources that when Obama went to school in Indonesia, the only way that could have been done was if he was a citizen of Indonesia (which would mean he gave up his citizenship of wherever he was born). Rembrandt, can you provide proof for your claim that his stepfather's heritage was good enough for Obama to go to school back then?Well, I would suggest that maybe you should provide your sources, as I've pretty much answered all your questions. But then. Obama is now the president-elect, so I'm not sure I care. :) I hope you voted. I hope we can all come together and move forward. I sincerely wish you all the best. :) Do you find this valuable? |
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Vigilant52 |
13. RE: Birth certificate?
Nov 5 2008, 3:18 PM EST
Pretty much answered all my questions, hahahaha. That's a hilarious note for this topic to end on. I'll leave it at that. Rembrandt, I know we don't see eye to eye, but we will see what the coming years are like, and I hope you the best as well.
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Petros_Houhoulis |
14. RE: Birth certificate?
Nov 6 2008, 10:53 PM EST
"Pretty much answered all my questions, hahahaha. That's a hilarious note for this topic to end on. I'll leave it at that. Rembrandt, I know we don't see eye to eye, but we will see what the coming years are like, and I hope you the best as well. "Could any of you U.S.Americans explain to me what is the difference of being born in the U.S.A. or in Mars? Are people born in the U.S.A. better qualified than those born outside of the U.S.A.? I'd rather like to know who the foreign policy extremists are, and if they can be more extremist that the Rumsfeld/Cheney clan, because the universe has grown sick of them and you (personally) because you have messed the entire planet. If you had checked the iftheworldcouldvote.com website, you could see that 210 out of 213 states of the planet earth sided with Obama, and more than half of them supported Obama by more than 90%. Infanticide is a fine custom. The Ancient Spartans used to practice it with totall success. Some modern pussies have some ridiculus moral restraints about the idea, but hell, who the hell cares about the one million (1,000,000) dead Iraqis since that silly invasion. Those bastards had no moral right to live I guess... If Barack made one mistake in his life by pressing the wrong button (something that he managed to change later, and excuse his action as a mistake) does not mean that he doesn't read the bills he votes for. In any case, I doubt that Bush was ever capable of either reading or speaking in proper English, and McCain has begun to sign some disturbing signs of old age lately, as Christopher Hitchens commented recently. I'd rather not comment upon Palin and her brain capacity... As for who has dangerous economic policies, the last people on the planet right now to be trusted on the issue are the economists who failed to predict that mess. Of course others saw it coming years ago, but none of them has spoken against Barack Obama so far... Do you find this valuable? |
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Vigilant52 |
15. RE: Birth certificate?
Nov 7 2008, 6:51 PM EST
Petros, obviously I did not decide the qualifications for becoming president. What I know is that there were rules this country was founded on. One of them was that the person to become president would be born in the country. I believe the idea behind that was to keep domestic interests in mind. America had just experienced a great war with England when that law was written, so preventing English men from running for president was a good idea. Someone born on Mars could be the most qualified to run the US at the time, but the laws of the US prevent them from doing so. Only allowing a US born citizen to run for president was totally appropriate back then, in my opinion. Should it still be a requirement today, where things are much different? It is not for me to decide, but it should be considered. It may prevent a more qualified person from running, or it may potentially endanger US interests (which is, after all, one of the things the president is to protect).You say you have grown sick with me personally. I do not know where you are from, but I am pretty sure there are polices and rules in your country that you do not agree with either. You live there, and I have to assume you choose to live there, since I have no reason to think otherwise. I live in the US and choose to live here, but I do not agree with all the polices of this current administration. It has made some huge mistakes, and I do not like this administration because of those mistakes. I don't have to list out my grievances against this administration, but do believe that Republicans and Democrats over here hate their mistakes as well. So why have you grown sick of me, personally? What have I personally done to mess up the planet? You don't know, so don't throw blame at me and shut your mouth. I don't have enough room to address the rest of what you said, but I'll leave it at that for now. Do you find this valuable? |
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Petros_Houhoulis |
16. RE: Birth certificate?
Nov 8 2008, 12:26 AM EST
"Petros, obviously I did not decide the qualifications for becoming president. What I know is that there were rules this country was founded on. One of them was that the person to become president would be born in the country. I believe the idea behind that was to keep domestic interests in mind. America had just experienced a great war with England when that law was written, so preventing English men from running for president was a good idea. Someone born on Mars could be the most qualified to run the US at the time, but the laws of the US prevent them from doing so. Only allowing a US born citizen to run for president was totally appropriate back then, in my opinion. Should it still be a requirement today, where things are much different? It is not for me to decide, but it should be considered. It may prevent a more qualified person from running, or it may potentially endanger US interests (which is, after all, one of the things the president is to protect).What sort of nonsense is this? Did you ever realize that, if an Englishman, Thomas Paine, didn't bother to immigrate (at the age of 37!) to the U.S.A., and had he not written his "common sense", the Americans might not have even grasped the idea of independence? And then you tell me that you are afraid that a person not born in the U.S.A. might not serve your domestic interests? HA! The problem with you is that you see terrorists everywhere, like the most of the Republican administration. You have ended up believing that almost all of the world and much of your fellow U.S.Americans want your demise. You have begun a culture or Pro-American Americans and Anti-American Americans! You have placed nearly all of the Democrats in that category. This is ridiculus! Wake up and realize that you cannot even survive without Allies. You are a mere 5% of the worlds' population, you'll have to live along with others in this planet. Right now there is almost nobody in this world who supports a Republican administration, either you like it or not... ...And they don't dislike the Republicans just because they are enemies. The Europeans - at least - dislike the Republicans because they are idiots... ...And that's what we think of you during the last 8 years that you have an illiterate person as a president... Do you find this valuable? |
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grapelust |
17. RE: Birth certificate?
Nov 8 2008, 12:31 AM EST
Well I would like to point out that some shroud of mystery is definetly involved with this birth certificate but does it matter? The anser is NO, quiet frankly if somebody did proove that Mr. Obama was not a natural born citizen would not matter at all. A little over half of the people that can vote in our country picked barrack. There would be so much more harm if the presidency was taken away by some technicality. We would never be able to get the bad taste out of our mouths if that happened. If this issue were to come to light and cause barrack to be not elidgble for the presidency that still does not chnage that over half of our voters wnat him to be president so a technicality can not stop that , no way! The back lash of issues such as racism, unfair associations, and even some people might think that the voting system had been cheated in some way would cause a great divide within the country that we could never recover from. At this great defining moment in time we can now no longer be acused as a country of racism, unfair oppurtunity based on your wealth, and that all americans have a chance to have thier voice heard. I for one am so very glad that we dont have to deal with the fact that if he lost, or if he was discluded over his birth certifcate that we would see the nation divided like a civil war. The map of voters RED vs BLUE already looks like the territories of a civil war occupancy. I think we were very close to turning on ourselves and were facing some type of implosion if barrack did not get a chance to serve the nation as a president!
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BrandonE |
18. RE: Birth certificate?
Nov 8 2008, 1:04 AM EST
Can you Pro-McCains just get over the fact that Obama is president, and that he IS a citizen. If you think they'd would be dumb enough to let some that your describing, into office, then your basically calling your REPUBLICAN team off. So what party do you belong to? Do you find this valuable? |
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grapelust |
19. RE: Birth certificate?
Nov 8 2008, 1:12 AM EST
"What sort of nonsense is this? Did you ever realize that, if an Englishman, Thomas Paine, didn't bother to immigrate (at the age of 37!) to the U.S.A., and had he not written his "common sense", the Americans might not have even grasped the idea of independence? And then you tell me that you are afraid that a person not born in the U.S.A. might not serve your domestic interests? HA!I disagree with your statement that almost nobody supports a republican administration because they had almost half of the votes also this election. I also disagree with the statement that republicans are enemies and idiots??? Yes I agree the last eight years were not fun for any americans living in the US but we can not say that a little less than half of the people that voted this election are enmies? or idiots? We are working together to unfiy correct? As a supporter of barrack that is not the message he carries correct? regardless of part affiliation, race, or how inelligent you may perceive people we are all going to have to work together to make the US a better place for our children, new immigrants, and the current population. I would even go so far to say that if the US is very prosperous this would lead to better economic situations for the rest fo the world. SO if we lead by example and that means putting down preconceived notions of republicans, different races, forien born people etc... We can show the rest of the world how to live without limits to be very prosperous and very free! Do you find this valuable? |