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petar

petar
macedonia
Jun 22 2007, 4:09 PM EDT
Hi, I'm from Macedonia and I really support Obama, it's time black man to be president of the United States.

P.S. Try www.furka.wetpaint.com, It's got an english version also.
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ACottrell
ACottrell
RE: macedonia
Jun 23 2007, 11:49 PM EDT
Thank you for joining us from so far away. I agree, it is time for a black president, and I'm hopeful it will happen in 08! 8  out of 28 found this valuable. Do you?    
tanjaz9

tanjaz9
RE: macedonia
Dec 19 2007, 10:23 PM EST
HI Petar- I use to support Obama but I found out that he doesn't support Macedonians. He has taken side wtih those that belive we don't exist, we have no history, and that we should change our name. Here are a few links with more info on Obama's stand on Macedonia.
http://the-macedonian-tendency.blogspot.com/2007/10/samantha-powers-obamas-advisor.html
http://the-macedonian-tendency.blogspot.com/2007/12/oprah-obama-will-disapoint-you.html
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ilioski5

ilioski5
RE: macedonia
Jan 4 2008, 1:06 AM EST
I would have also supported Obama but at this point I can't so how that is possible. I'm a MACEDONIAN and if he doesn't recognize me or my country then he can count me out... as if I didn't exist!!!

I've actually made it a point to let those that want to vote for him know where he stands on this issue. My parents, grandparents, and their parents have always called themselves Macedonia's and you WILL NOT change this.
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dariusIII

dariusIII
RE: macedonia
Jan 9 2008, 8:54 PM EST
How can someone say Macedonia doesn't have history? Alexander the Great, ring a bell? I think Barock would make a good president but there is one major flaw that has failed to be noteiced. HE HAS ONLY HAD ONE YEAR OF FEDERAL EXPERIENCE. Keep that in mind when you vote. That is, if you can vote. I'm a minor and can't vote. 19  out of 49 found this valuable. Do you?    
Hellenic

Hellenic
RE: macedonia
Jan 25 2008, 10:25 AM EST
""...I'm from Macedonia and I really support Obama"

"
Macedonia is derived from 2 ancient Greek words. "Mekos" and "Adonis" or "Makednos" meaning "the tall one" reffering to the stature of the peoples of this ancient Greek tribe.

The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia's territory was named “Macedonia” during the Ottoman Empire in the19th century identifying a GEOGRAPHICAL region NOT the ancient KINGDOM OF MACEDON. FYROM occupies 1/10 of the ancient Kingdom of Macedon, while authentic Macedonia (now a Greek province) in Greece occupies 9/10 of the ancient Kingdom of Macedon.

FYROM, a very new state in the Balkans with citizens mainly of Slavic and Albanian origin decided to monopolize the Greek terms Macedonia which was given to them by General Tito in 1944, despite the fact that those terms have been in use for 2800 years describing the ancient Macedonian Kingdom, part of the Greek World and the actual Macedonians, a Greek people (Dorians).

The name "macedonia" was given to the Southern Yugoslavian providence by General Tito aiming to create conflict in the region and to obtain Greek and Bulgarian territories. Before the 2nd World War FYROM was called Vardarska.

Extremely interesting is the U.S. State Dep. Foreign Relations Vol. VII, Circular Airgram [868.014], which was sent by then Secretary of State E. Stettinius, December 26th 1944, to all consular officials, informing them of the act to create a separate "Macedonia," as a "cloak for aggression against Greece." "......................................This Government considers talk of "Macedonian Nation", "Macedonian Fatherland", or "Macedonian National Consciousness" to be unjustified demagoguery representing no ethnic or political reality, and sees in its present revival a possible cloak for aggressive intentions against Greece".

So, good on ya Oboma! You obviously know and respect history!
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tanjaz9

tanjaz9
RE: macedonia
Jan 26 2008, 3:18 PM EST
"Macedonia is derived from 2 ancient Greek words. "Mekos" and "Adonis" or "Makednos" meaning "the tall one" reffering to the stature of the peoples of this ancient Greek tribe.

The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia's territory was named “Macedonia” during the Ottoman Empire in the19th century identifying a GEOGRAPHICAL region NOT the ancient KINGDOM OF MACEDON. FYROM occupies 1/10 of the ancient Kingdom of Macedon, while authentic Macedonia (now a Greek province) in Greece occupies 9/10 of the ancient Kingdom of Macedon.

FYROM, a very new state in the Balkans with citizens mainly of Slavic and Albanian origin decided to monopolize the Greek terms Macedonia which was given to them by General Tito in 1944, despite the fact that those terms have been in use for 2800 years describing the ancient Macedonian Kingdom, part of the Greek World and the actual Macedonians, a Greek people (Dorians).

The name "macedonia" was given to the Southern Yugoslavian providence by General Tito aiming to create conflict in the region and to obtain Greek and Bulgarian territories. Before the 2nd World War FYROM was called Vardarska.

Extremely interesting is the U.S. State Dep. Foreign Relations Vol. VII, Circular Airgram [868.014], which was sent by then Secretary of State E. Stettinius, December 26th 1944, to all consular officials, informing them of the act to create a separate "Macedonia," as a "cloak for aggression against Greece." "......................................This Government considers talk of "Macedonian Nation", "Macedonian Fatherland", or "Macedonian National Consciousness" to be unjustified demagoguery representing no ethnic or political reality, and sees in its present revival a possible cloak for aggressive intentions against Greece".

So, good on ya Oboma! You obviously know and respect history!
"
Your version of history sounds very impressive but this is not a forum to discuss the origin of Macedonians or the meaning of the name. It really doesn't matter where we came from or when we were recognized, the fact is that we are here and we're not going to give up our name based on propaganda generated by countries that want to take our land and call it their own. The purpose of this forum is to discuss Obama and not Macedonia. The only reason I brought up the Macedonia issue was that Obama is known for saying that he represents change and a new form of politics. He says he doesn't want to receive money from lobbyists but he obviously is taking money from Greek lobbyists. This in my opinion makes him untrustworthy. You said that Obama obviously knows history but in my opinion he doesn't know anything about it. All he knows is that the Greek population is larger than the Macedonian population in the US which in his mind gets him more votes. But as we saw in the previous election, numbers don't always bring about victory. Although a small population, Macedonians helped Bush win the last election and he thanked them by formally recognizing Macedonia.
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petar

petar
RE: macedonia
Jan 30 2008, 8:33 AM EST
"Macedonia is derived from 2 ancient Greek words. "Mekos" and "Adonis" or "Makednos" meaning "the tall one" reffering to the stature of the peoples of this ancient Greek tribe.

The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia's territory was named “Macedonia” during the Ottoman Empire in the19th century identifying a GEOGRAPHICAL region NOT the ancient KINGDOM OF MACEDON. FYROM occupies 1/10 of the ancient Kingdom of Macedon, while authentic Macedonia (now a Greek province) in Greece occupies 9/10 of the ancient Kingdom of Macedon.

FYROM, a very new state in the Balkans with citizens mainly of Slavic and Albanian origin decided to monopolize the Greek terms Macedonia which was given to them by General Tito in 1944, despite the fact that those terms have been in use for 2800 years describing the ancient Macedonian Kingdom, part of the Greek World and the actual Macedonians, a Greek people (Dorians).

The name "macedonia" was given to the Southern Yugoslavian providence by General Tito aiming to create conflict in the region and to obtain Greek and Bulgarian territories. Before the 2nd World War FYROM was called Vardarska.

Extremely interesting is the U.S. State Dep. Foreign Relations Vol. VII, Circular Airgram [868.014], which was sent by then Secretary of State E. Stettinius, December 26th 1944, to all consular officials, informing them of the act to create a separate "Macedonia," as a "cloak for aggression against Greece." "......................................This Government considers talk of "Macedonian Nation", "Macedonian Fatherland", or "Macedonian National Consciousness" to be unjustified demagoguery representing no ethnic or political reality, and sees in its present revival a possible cloak for aggressive intentions against Greece".

So, good on ya Oboma! You obviously know and respect history!
"
Demosten had said that Macedonians are barbarians and Greeks should never be occupied by them, what obviously means that Macedonians are not Greek tribe. There are many other tribes which had lived on the Balkans in that period, but they're not Greeks, aren't they?

About Obama, please, people don't you think that he really means what he say. Probably someone else decides what's he gonna say.
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Hellenic

Hellenic
RE: macedonia
Feb 5 2008, 6:36 AM EST
"Demosten had said that Macedonians are barbarians and Greeks should never be occupied by them, what obviously means that Macedonians are not Greek tribe. There are many other tribes which had lived on the Balkans in that period, but they're not Greeks, aren't they?

"
Hmmm, actually no that is incorrect.

Demosthenes, an Athenian orator and politician in various speeches of his and most notably in Olynthiakos G' and later, when it was very clear to him that the power of Athens was fading away and Macedonia (anothet Greek state) was the new power in the Hellenic world, accused Philippos II of many things including that of being barbarian. This is not surprising for Demosthenes who spent his whole life advocating the superiority of Athens over the other Hellenic states, even if that required that some Greek city-states were to be destroyed or to suffer for Athens to remain the leader of Greece.

Petar, you should visit Pella in Greece which is the ancient capital of The Kingdom of Macedonia. You might actually learn somethng. Take along a Greek dictionary so that you can understand what is written on the ancient Macedonian artefacts.

This entire thread is a bit of a red herring. Not really much to do with Obama to be honest.
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petar

petar
RE: macedonia
Feb 5 2008, 8:40 AM EST
"Hmmm, actually no that is incorrect.

Demosthenes, an Athenian orator and politician in various speeches of his and most notably in Olynthiakos G' and later, when it was very clear to him that the power of Athens was fading away and Macedonia (anothet Greek state) was the new power in the Hellenic world, accused Philippos II of many things including that of being barbarian. This is not surprising for Demosthenes who spent his whole life advocating the superiority of Athens over the other Hellenic states, even if that required that some Greek city-states were to be destroyed or to suffer for Athens to remain the leader of Greece.

Petar, you should visit Pella in Greece which is the ancient capital of The Kingdom of Macedonia. You might actually learn somethng. Take along a Greek dictionary so that you can understand what is written on the ancient Macedonian artefacts.

This entire thread is a bit of a red herring. Not really much to do with Obama to be honest.
"
Aaaahhh... He said Macedonians are barbarians, but he didn't mean it... I see...

It's time to stop this discussion about Macedonia and Greece. Let's talk about Obama.
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Hellenic

Hellenic
RE: macedonia
Feb 6 2008, 4:37 AM EST
"Aaaahhh... He said Macedonians are barbarians, but he didn't mean it... I see...

It's time to stop this discussion about Macedonia and Greece. Let's talk about Obama."
Oh dear, we really do have to go back to history 101 don't we?

The term “Barbarian” wasnt used solely for non-greeks as the propagandists would love to believe. It was also used as an insult among Greeks and to point out a culturally inferior Greek tribe.

Otherwise we would hve to conclude Boeotians, Thessalians and Eleans were non-Greeks when we read in Athenaios Deipnosophists VIII 350a:

“which were the greatest barbarians, the Boeotians or the Thessalians he said, ” The Eleans.””

or Atheneans were…non-Greeks when Socrates called the Athenean Strepsiades a ‘Barbarian’ in Aristophanes “Nephelai” or when Aeschines calls Demosthenes a ‘Barbarian’ while addressing to him “On the Embassy 2 183”

Enough of this though. This is not the place to discuss the name issue between Greece and The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. Let's rather talk about Obama.
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tanjaz9

tanjaz9
RE: macedonia
Feb 6 2008, 2:03 PM EST
You keep saying let's talk about Obama so talk about it. What do you think of Obama??? 11  out of 27 found this valuable. Do you?    
petar

petar
RE: macedonia
Feb 7 2008, 9:41 AM EST
Have Obama said something new about Macedonia-Greece name issue? 12  out of 30 found this valuable. Do you?    
dariusIII

dariusIII
RE: macedonia
Feb 7 2008, 3:12 PM EST
"You keep saying let's talk about Obama so talk about it. What do you think of Obama??? "
Okay. To talk about Obama. (which by the way, i find the whole Macedon-Greek thing very interesting, but agree that we should have more discussion over Obama rather than history) Obama is not doing as well for the democrats as i had hoped. Hillary currently has, i believe 783 delegates, where as Obama only has 709. Though not a huge gap, i don't think he is doing well. Seeing as Hillary is now his only opponent, i strongly feel that he is the better candidate, due greatly to Hillary's hypocracy factor, though, interestingly enough, some contacts of mine in Chicago, Illinois said they would absolutly never vote for Obama. Apparently, he always votes 'present' meaning he comes to the votes, but does not take a side. Now, i am not sure if this is true because on super tuesday, the majority of the people from Illinois voted for Obama. Anyhow, i hope this will help keep this thread on the Obama topic as you wanted.

-Darius (sorry, but my screne name is related to Alexander the Great's greatest rivel, Darius III who controled Persia at the time. Obviously, Alexander defeated him, but that really isn't the point)

On a side note, i really need spell-check.
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dariusIII

dariusIII
RE: macedonia
Feb 7 2008, 3:15 PM EST
Yes, me again. Another update. Hillary has 823 dellegates and Obama has 741. I suppose this emphasises my point that Hillary has a fair-sized lead over Obama. 9  out of 21 found this valuable. Do you?    
macedon

macedon
RE: macedonia
Mar 3 2008, 6:04 PM EST
"Hmmm, actually no that is incorrect.

Demosthenes, an Athenian orator and politician in various speeches of his and most notably in Olynthiakos G' and later, when it was very clear to him that the power of Athens was fading away and Macedonia (anothet Greek state) was the new power in the Hellenic world, accused Philippos II of many things including that of being barbarian. This is not surprising for Demosthenes who spent his whole life advocating the superiority of Athens over the other Hellenic states, even if that required that some Greek city-states were to be destroyed or to suffer for Athens to remain the leader of Greece.

Petar, you should visit Pella in Greece which is the ancient capital of The Kingdom of Macedonia. You might actually learn somethng. Take along a Greek dictionary so that you can understand what is written on the ancient Macedonian artefacts.

This entire thread is a bit of a red herring. Not really much to do with Obama to be honest.
"
I have visited Pella, we don`t know if it`s the reall one yet. And do you know what I have seen there. Only a few inches stone from our ancient father Alexandar Of Macedonia from which you have made now a big monument on which monument you have written your helenic and greek language. Everithing is not reall and based on your lies and your writtings of the history.
One thing you should know the history is not written since 1913 it is written from our Great Aleksandar Makedonski.
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macedon

macedon
RE: macedonia
Mar 3 2008, 6:35 PM EST
Explain me than why greek army in the civill war was fighting the macedonians from there and make torturate him also run them out from their homes. Why did you changed all of the names of the towns and other places. You threted Macedonians with their lifes not to spoke on macedonian, you didn`t let them to talk on their language even in their homes. Why, why did you do that? You were and you still are afraid because this people there, still feels like macedonians, despite of the treats some of them still talk macedonian language, their blode is macedonian you can not forbiden them that, exept if you kill them or run them out of greece. You made them greeks with force and power after the civil war.
Yuo have nothing with our antient Father Alexandar, he was a man for equal world one world without names of the countries without nations without greeks or macedonians.
No you aren`t nothing like him, you are nacists.
Sorry but you do what they do.
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Hellenic

Hellenic
RE: macedonia
Mar 5 2008, 6:01 AM EST
History 101 part 2.

The archaeological discoveries from the Ancient Macedonian Kingdom (especially in Pella) is the stongest proof that ancient Macedonia was part of the ancient Greek world. All the inscriptions on monuments, grave sites, coins and other artifacts have the Greek language on them. There are no ancient monuments with a different language. Furthermore there is a large number of discoveries in Asia on the route of Alexander the Great. All these monuments, discovered in Pakistan, Kuweit, India and many more countries, prove that Alexanders quest was Greek and that his goal was to spread the Greek civilization all over the world.



All the kings of Ancient Macedonia had Greek names. Nobody discovered ancient Macedonian names ending in -ov or -ovski etc.

The word "Alexandros" is produced from the prefix alex (protector) and the word andros (man) meaning "the protector of men". The prefix "alex" can be found in many Greek words today (alexiptoto = parachute, alexisfairo = bulletproof - all these words have the meaning of protetion).

Philip's name is also Greek. It is produced from the prefix Philo (friend or friendly toward) and the word ippos (horse) meaning the man who is friendly to horses. The prefix "philo" and the word "ippos" are also found in many words of Greek origin today (philosophy,philology, hippodrome,hippocampus).

The only thing you are correct about is that Hellenic history is not written since 1913. Yes, it goes back thousands of years. The Greek names of the towns in Macedonia are also mentioned in the Bible. A characteristic example is Thessaloniki. This city was founded in 315 bc by the Macedonian king Kasssandros and it was named after Alexanders' half sister - Thessaloniki. The name Thessaloniki is even mentioned in the bible by St Paul. He address ed his letters (epistoles) to "the people of Thessaloniki"



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Hellenic

Hellenic
Greece vs. The Former Yugoslav Republic of macedonia:
Mar 5 2008, 7:55 AM EST
"Explain me than why greek army in the civill war was fighting the macedonians from there and make torturate him also run them out from their homes. Why did you changed all of the names of the towns and other places. You threted Macedonians with their lifes not to spoke on macedonian, you didn`t let them to talk on their language even in their homes. Why, why did you do that? You were and you still are afraid because this people there, still feels like macedonians, despite of the treats some of them still talk macedonian language, their blode is macedonian you can not forbiden them that, exept if you kill them or run them out of greece. You made them greeks with force and power after the civil war.
Yuo have nothing with our antient Father Alexandar, he was a man for equal world one world without names of the countries without nations without greeks or macedonians.
No you aren`t nothing like him, you are nacists.
Sorry but you do what they do."
The area of FYROM was never officially called "Macedonia" before the 2nd World War. This name was officially given to the Southern Yugoslavian province by General Tito aiming to create conflict in the region and to obtain Greek and Bulgarian territories. Before the 2nd World War FYROM was oficially called Vardarska.

Over the centuries the GEOGRAPHICAL REGION of Macedonia (NOT King Philip's ANCIENT KINGDOM OF MACEDONIA) had become a multicultural region. Historical references mention Greeks, Bulgarians, Turks, Albanians, Gypsies, Jews and Vlachs. Eventually, in the 20th century, 'Bulgarians' came to be understood as synonymous with 'Macedonian Slavs' and, eventually, 'ethnic Macedonians'. Krste Misirkov, a philologist and publicist, mostly known for his work "On the Macedonian Matters", heralded by Macedonians as one of the “founders of the Macedonian nation”, stated:

“Some will ask why I speak of breaking away from the Bulgarians when in the past we have even called ourselves Bulgarians and when it is generally accepted that unification creates strength, and not separation.”

“And, anyway, what sort of new Macedonian nation can this be when we and our fathers and grandfathers and great-grandfathers have always been called Bulgarians?”

Greece acquired 51% of GEOGRAPHICAL MACEDONIA in 1913 (90% of the ANCIENT KINGDOM OF MACEDONIA) as a result of the treaty of Bucharest. International treaties are not illegal. Furthermore Greece in 1913 was not a powerful country to acquire any land it desired. This land was "given" to Greece because it historically belonged to Greece and its residents were Greek.
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macedon

macedon
RE: Greece vs. The Former Yugoslav Republic of macedonia:
Mar 5 2008, 8:19 AM EST
Well one thing I can see from your text, you actually don`t know anything about your own history, you as I can see are just making copy paste from some your greek web about your version of history.

And you didn`t explain to me why you still don`t let someone in your country to say in publik what he flees that he is. Macedonian, bulgarian, albanian, gipsy . . . . . . . .
You don`t let them to speak their languages, few years ago you eaven get them in prison for that.
Are you afraid of the truth or what.
Are you still doing the civill war on your political way, silent way.
And what for was that civil war.
Why you are afraid of macedonians that live there.
If they fell them selves macedonians thats what they are, if they want their names to end in -ovski- why you don`t let them.
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